More Angel musings

[quesarah]

did spike tell angel that he kept slipping away to hell, or just fred? and since most vampires don't have souls, what happens when they get dusted? i suspect the demon part gets sent to a hell dimension, but that would suggest the soul has already moved on somewhere. or is it in limbo? if so, what happens to the soul when the vampire is staked? can it then move on to the next dimension? did spike essentially damn his soul by getting it back? how long will he have to work to redeem himself? eternity? this is a neat twist to the redemption story; angel is tormented by guilt, but spike has seen what's in store for him and he's terrified of damnation. this could be seriously fun character development.

Comments

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

So far so good. I like the way they're pulling it off. I've always been bitter about the whole Angel with a soul concept because as much guilt as he has right now, as soon as he's Angelus again, he couldn't give a flying fuck about goodness and love. Meanwhile Spike worked the good even before he got a soul and then went out of his way to get one.

but that would suggest the soul has already moved on somewhere.

I'd speculate that, based on the fact that Angel keeps losing and regaining his soul and that it is often kept in neat bottles, that when a human is first bitten, the soul goes off to some kind of storage area. Then, perhaps when the vamp gets dusted, the soul officially moves on. So in Spike's case, his soul seems to be trapped in the amulet and destroying that means freeing the soul to go to where ever it must.

did spike tell angel that he kept slipping away to hell, or just fred?

I got the impression it was only Fred he shared that with.

[wafflelips.livejournal.com]

I think Spike just told Fred about it.

If you go by the premise that souls move on when someone is turned into a vamp, then it's kind of weird that Angel's keeps getting yanked and replaced. I always thought of them as in limbo until the vamp is dusted. Then the soul moves onto wherever it was originally headed.

I'm looking forward to some of the character development. And I'm pleased that the show has some actual humor again.

[biogeekgrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, so a vamp's soul is in limbo until they're dusted, at which point it moves on and is "at peace." William the Bloody Awful Poet really was a milqetoast, never did nothin' to nobody except swoon over them. And he was nice to his momma. So theoretically, he shouldn't have been sent to "the other place;" it was newly-souled Spike's actions that damned him. This is pretty interesting to me.

Is it the actions, or is it just being "tainted" by the vamp demon? Is Angel in the same boat, and is that why he's been so dedicated to redeeming himself? Canon so far has suggested it was Angel's guilt that drove him to try to redeem himself, but with Spike it's the fear of what comes next if he doesn't. It's a very different story. Neat.

[distraction77.livejournal.com]

1)Spike just told Fred as he was peeing in the corner of her office.

2)I agree with the soul in limbo/storage theory. I do believe that, in the Joss-verse at least, bodies retain certain personality traits because they are either genetic or physically learned and inherent in the actual cells of a body. My theory is backed up by the whole Gay Vamp Willow - Gay real Willow thing. Sure Spike was a pussy and a Mama's boy before he was turned, but that doesn't mean he was a nice guy. I've only seen part of seventh season Buffy (yes, I've been spoiled and I like it), but I don't remember him being especially nice then. Or perhaps vamps w/souls start existence in the red because they have more ability to do good then us mere mortals, what with the super strength and the eternal youth and all. Ok, I'll free your journal now. I wish I could write this much in English class.

[biogeekgrrl.livejournal.com]

Or perhaps vamps w/souls start existence in the red because they have more ability to do good then us mere mortals, what with the super strength and the eternal youth and all.

I wonder. At any rate, I am fascinated by the possibility that Spike damned himself by getting his soul returned. How delightfully ironic. So of course, that won't be what happens. Someone else posited that the old Angel prophecy about an ensouled vamp who saves the world being rewarded by becoming human--maybe it's about Spike instead. Heh. Take that, Capt. Forehead.

[wafflelips.livejournal.com]

I also think it's interesting to note that he's always going out of the way for a woman, and it causing him more pain.

For example, going through hell for Dru, and her never taking him back. Turning his mom to 'save her' and then having to kill her because she was such a horrible monster. Getting his soul back for Buffy and now he's damned himself.

[biogeekgrrl.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I think a plot bunny just hopped through the room...