Depression & suicidal thoughts are not uncommon for a teenager. A thought just crossed my mind. I remember wondering if-his name slips me now-the bastard, who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City; if he was suicidal and couldn't pull it off himself. I mean they caught him only because he was driving down the highway 100 mph. without a license plate.
Still you have to blame our culture too. The culture of violence, the availability of the information to build these weapons, the inspiration etc. Humanity has a dark side (or maybe just us males) but the culture is sympathetic to it.
Depression and suicidal thoughts aren't uncommon; what Dylan Klebold did is uncommon. There may have been preciptating events or complicating factors, signs or signals. Who can say, we're just looking back trying to make sense of it.
I think you also need to consider the unique synergy of the two. If Harris was really a psychopath, and Klebold an angry depressive, then you have a bad cycle of anger, violence and psychopathic manipulation. Klebold could have turned out as ordinarily dysfunctional as any kid. He could have been fine. It would have taken work, but he could have changed. Hell, angry, depressive, and having a potential for violence-- that was me at the same age. But my friends were fairly sane, my family caring, my life good. Klebold's touchstone and sounding board may have well been a psychopath, which would not bode well for his future.
If the psychologists are right, then Harris was already well on the way to some pretty nasty shit. He was wired wrong in ways we can't begin to understand. And he was good at hiding. A natural predator, a compulsive liar, a ruthless monster. And charismatic enough to drag someone else with him with fantasies of power and glory.
There was an important convergence in the lives of Harris and Klebold, and society did play its part-- but I think these boys were going someplace bad no matter what.
I think that if Klebold had a better support system, and best bud that wasn't a psychopath, he *could* have been helped. His troubles weren't all that unique.
Sociopaths, on the other hand, like Harris are hard to work with. Anyone with a personality disorder (which is what a sociopath is classified as) is difficult to deal with. Most don't experience any growth or change in their personality unless they happen to make it to their late 40s--which is pretty uncommon because many end up dead (either by someone else or by suicide, drug overdose, poor health).
If the report on Harris is accurate, that boy was not on anything close to a good path. Sounds like he very well could have been on the highway to serial violent crime no matter what. His behavior and diary information sounds surprisingly like what I have read about serial killers' early writing. I think he was lost a long time ago. I wonder sometimes what is wrong with people like this-- is it chemical, neurological, developmental? Did such people always exist among us, or is this an outgrowth of our modern world?
The thought of people with personality disorders of this sort always being around, however, is pretty fascinating. Is this an aberration, a sort of behavioral cancer, or is this somehow an adaptation that once provided a valid evolutionary strategy in humans but which has since become a negative trait?
I know there are no answers, but it still fascinates me in a sick sort of way.
I know there are no answers, but it still fascinates me in a sick sort of way.
It is interesting. Personality disorders make me wonder about a lot of different things--how it may be a survival mechanism that goes haywire, that it may be how humans were to begin with, that maybe if some soiopaths were treated with some drugs they could learn to feel....
I used to be really fascinated with serial killers. Read a lot of books about them. I was curious about what went wrong that made them so insane.
Then I started working with sex offendors and vicitms of abuse, and couldn't stand reading about serial killers anymore. Made me too angry.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2004-04-21 10:50 am (UTC)A thought just crossed my mind. I remember wondering if-his name slips me now-the bastard, who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City; if he was suicidal and couldn't pull it off himself. I mean they caught him only because he was driving down the highway 100 mph. without a license plate.
Still you have to blame our culture too. The culture of violence, the availability of the information to build these weapons, the inspiration etc. Humanity has a dark side (or maybe just us males) but the culture is sympathetic to it.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-21 10:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-21 11:25 am (UTC)I think you also need to consider the unique synergy of the two. If Harris was really a psychopath, and Klebold an angry depressive, then you have a bad cycle of anger, violence and psychopathic manipulation. Klebold could have turned out as ordinarily dysfunctional as any kid. He could have been fine. It would have taken work, but he could have changed. Hell, angry, depressive, and having a potential for violence-- that was me at the same age. But my friends were fairly sane, my family caring, my life good. Klebold's touchstone and sounding board may have well been a psychopath, which would not bode well for his future.
If the psychologists are right, then Harris was already well on the way to some pretty nasty shit. He was wired wrong in ways we can't begin to understand. And he was good at hiding. A natural predator, a compulsive liar, a ruthless monster. And charismatic enough to drag someone else with him with fantasies of power and glory.
There was an important convergence in the lives of Harris and Klebold, and society did play its part-- but I think these boys were going someplace bad no matter what.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-22 11:09 am (UTC)Sociopaths, on the other hand, like Harris are hard to work with. Anyone with a personality disorder (which is what a sociopath is classified as) is difficult to deal with. Most don't experience any growth or change in their personality unless they happen to make it to their late 40s--which is pretty uncommon because many end up dead (either by someone else or by suicide, drug overdose, poor health).
no subject
Date: 2004-04-22 11:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-22 12:58 pm (UTC)He was a fucking maniac.
I think people like him have existed for a long time and I don't think it's just part of modern society.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-22 01:36 pm (UTC)The thought of people with personality disorders of this sort always being around, however, is pretty fascinating. Is this an aberration, a sort of behavioral cancer, or is this somehow an adaptation that once provided a valid evolutionary strategy in humans but which has since become a negative trait?
I know there are no answers, but it still fascinates me in a sick sort of way.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-22 02:17 pm (UTC)It is interesting. Personality disorders make me wonder about a lot of different things--how it may be a survival mechanism that goes haywire, that it may be how humans were to begin with, that maybe if some soiopaths were treated with some drugs they could learn to feel....
I used to be really fascinated with serial killers. Read a lot of books about them. I was curious about what went wrong that made them so insane.
Then I started working with sex offendors and vicitms of abuse, and couldn't stand reading about serial killers anymore. Made me too angry.